We've spent the last few classes speaking about what is perhaps the biggest challenge to the average person's faith in G-d; the dual problems of צדיק ורע לו and רשע וטוב לו.
You spent time today exploring classical sources about this issue, and I'd like each of you to share some of the ideas you encountered via this blog.
PLEASE READ THE INSTRUCTIONS CAREFULLY AND BE SURE TO COMPLETE THE WHOLE ASSIGNMENT.
Assignment: Please write 2-3 paragraphs in the comments section below about something you read today that made you think, whether it seemed to confirm OR contradict things we've already discussed, if it confused or surprised you in any way, and if it reminded you of any specific real-life situations. THEN, reply to at least 2 classmates' comments and explain WHY you agree, disagree, or have something to add to their thoughts.
This assignment is due before class tomorrow, Thursday April 30.
This assignment is due before class tomorrow, Thursday April 30.
*Keep in mind: Although I am not going to be grading this assignment on the basis of your English language skills, I do fully expect you to use your best writing, so that you can be sure you're communicating clearly and efficiently. That includes using proper spelling, grammar, punctuation, and writing conventions (complete sentences and paragraphs, topic sentences, etc.).
**Please note: Before you post anything at all on this blog, create a Google Doc titled "JL&F Blog" and write everything there first. Then copy and paste it into the blog (this goes for all blog submissions). Occasionally people will write a lengthy response and then hit "submit", only to see it all instantly disappear. As long as you've got the original version in your Google Doc, this isn't a big problem; you can just send me your submission and I will post it for you.
One of the things Meira and I read today (along with Batya and Chaya) said that wicked people flourish. This is somewhat troubling to think about. Why should it be that wicked people can still grow, only to become more evil. We learned in Mrs. Harris’s class that the reward for doing good is that opportunity to do more good, so why should wicked people have that equal opportunity (on the other side). To them it might seem like a reward because they want to flourish, but it doesn’t only affect them. If the wicked people flourish, they can cause more problems to us.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing we read was that Hashem scolds his beloved. If a child is doing something wrong then sometimes the parents have to yell or punish them. However, the pasuk didn’t make it seem like the loved ones of Hashem did something wrong. Obviously scolding must help us grow or Hashem wouldn’t do it, but now I am interested to see what the rationale is.
I really like the points that you made, Eliana! I agree that it is strange for wicked people to flourish, and maybe Hashem scolds us for the Jewish people's sins in general not our own individual sins , so that we encourage eachother to do teshuvah.
DeleteThat was a good connection to Mrs. Harris's class. It seems that Hashem should scold the wicked people instead of letting the flourish.
DeleteThis is a very nice analysis on a couple things you read, Eliana. I agree- It does seem odd that the wicked will flourish while the beloved will be scolded.
ReplyDeleteToday, Tamar and I encountered two pasukim that confirm the idea of the reality of bad things happening to good people and good things happening to bad people.
ReplyDeleteThe first of these is "את הכל ראיתי בימי הבלי, יש צדיק אובד בצדקו ויש רשע מאריך ברעתו." This passuk from Kohelet means (translation from chabbad.org): "I have seen everything in the days of my vanity; there is a righteous man who perishes in his righteousness, and there is a wicked man who lives long in his wickedness."
This confirms that righteous humans may die from harsh punishments/conditions while wicked humans may live for a long time with their bad deeds.
A second passuk that also confirms this concept is:
צדיק אתה ה' כי אריב אליך, אך משפטים אדבר אותך, מדוע דרך רשעים צלחה שלו כל בוגדי בגד"
" נטעתם גם שורשו ילכו גם עשו פרי, קרוב אתה בפיהם ורחוק מכליותיהם
This means (translation from chabbad.org): "You are right, O Lord, when I contend with You, but I will argue with You. Why has the way of the wicked prospered, all who deal with treachery have peace?"
This example shows that even Yirmiyahu, a prophet, questioned G-d's way of dealing with the wicked. We can understand from this that this was, is, and will be a question that we will never have an answer to, since we cannot understand the way G-d plans and acts.
Those pesukkim fit right into the concepts of Rasha Vitov Lo and Tzaddik Virah Lo. They seem contradictory and I wonder what the reasoning is behind them.
DeleteBatya and I read the same Pessukim as Eliana and Meira, where it is written that the wicked flourish/ grow like grass. This seems very strange since it doesn't make sense for bad people to flourish. This passuk follows the concept of Rasha Vitov Lo, since it is talking about good things happening to bad people. Although this seems very strange, we have to look at this more deeply to get a better understanding of what it really means.
ReplyDeleteAnother passuk that we read said "anger is better than laughter", which we also found incomprehensible. Most people would say the opposite of this, but when we thought about the meaning of the verse, we found an explanation. It might not be directly referring to anger and laughter, but maybe to seriousness and foolishness. In many situations, it is better and more appropriate to act in a serious matter than a silly and foolish one.
Wow, this was so interesting. When I read the anger is better than laughter part I felt mad and I strongly disagreed. Although I may not agree 100%, at least it seems a little more rational. I think it is good to be serious in situations but it is not good to be serious and negative. Instead it is okay to be serious but one should try to be both positive and serious at the same time.
DeleteIt is strange to think that wicked people grow like grass. When you first look at it, it seems like it is saying that good happens to the bad. But, it could be saying that like long grass wicked people are out of control.
DeleteRena and I read a couple of sources today from Kohelet. One explained that it is hevel/frustrating that a rightous man can die, while a wicked man lives. This seems ridiculous at first, but if we remember that we are put on this earth to accomplish a certain goal, we can interpret that maybe the righteous has left this world because he has fulfilled his mission in this world, and the wicked is still here trying to fulfil his mission. THe wicked man has not yet completely grown into the person G-d wants him to be.
ReplyDeleteThe second source from Kohelet explains that it is hevel/frustrating
that bad things happen to righteous people, while good things happen to wicked people. This is also hard to understand, but we can try and satisfy ourselves with the answer that G-d has a plan and that we should have trust in G-d. In Shemot we learn to have trust in G-d, like when Yocheved had to have trust in G-d that it was going to be okay, even though she had a baby boy in a time that it was very difficult to have a baby boy.
We also read a source from Yirmiyahu that said that those who do unpeaceful things, live in peace. This makes no sense to me. I can try to understand why one might die and one might live or why good and bad things might happen, but I cannot understand how someone who disturbs the peace, is able to live a peaceful life. If a person disturbs peace, they should have disturbed peace.
Excellent summary, Yehudit!! I think you really grasped the main concepts and did a great job of explaining what we learned. I also love how you applied it to other things that we have studied this year. It is important to find these key ideals and values in Judaism through every sort of subject and study we encounter. Cannot wait to finish working with you!
DeleteToday in class Yehudit and I started reading Kohelet. We started to discuss death and why Hashem takes good people sooner than he takes certain wicked people. This really made me think.
ReplyDeleteSometimes suffering and hardships can lead to straying from G-d. As confusing as it may be or as hard as it is, in Judaism a key approach would be to move on and realize that everything is from G-d.
In Kohelet we explored that everyone has a mission. The mission of the good person could be completed while the mission of the wicked person may not be completed yet. Even with that being said, it is normal for someone who has experienced hardship to stray because we do not understand the mission that G-d gave each person and there seems to be no rationale.
Like I previously stated, as a Jew, I feel that it is so important to not let a hardship make one stray from G-d. Although I wish I can say that certain rough times in my life have made me closer to Him, unfortunately I can't. But I can say that I do try so hard to realize that even though it sounds crazy, I know that G-d has a plan for everyone. I feel that I view the world as a puzzle. Not all the pieces are put together. Even though they are not all put together, they still exist. And them existing corresponds to G-ds plan existing for everyone.
( Sorry if that made no sense but it does in my head.)
Rena this is a very nice idea. I truly understand that being a Jew we have to believe that it all comes from Hashem and that we should become closer through our struggles, but it makes no sense. How could we say that we see him in our life when sometimes our challenges are too hard to overcome? But, it's true, Hashem does have a plan and sometimes we just have to try (try real hard) to just believe.
DeleteToday in class, Rena and I were looking at the ספר אמונות ודעות. The author discussed the two types of hardships righteous people encounter. The first kind of hardship comes from the small sins they do. This can include taking part in a lashon hara conversation.
ReplyDeleteThe second type of hardship is for Hashem to challenge the person. Hashem only gives us these challenges because he knows we can handle them and they will make us stronger. Hashem will then be able to repay us. This is similar to when a coach challenges their players because he knows they will be able to pass.
The author continues by quoting a pasuk of tehillim that explains that Hashem only gives these tests to righteous people whom he loves. He does not give these test to people he knows will not pass (bad people). Hashem chooses the righteous people to challenge in order for them to get the benefits from overcoming this challenge.
This makes complete sense. It's also very well stated. These two can also connect in a way. Hashem clearly shows His love to us by giving us challenges but in the end it's His way of showing us that He knows that we can handle the struggle. (I don't know if this makes sense, but it makes sense in my head..)
DeleteIn class we discussed two topics that make no sense to us. The first is, Rasha V’tov Lo, a bad person and good happens to him and the second is Tzadik V’rah Lo, a righteous person and bad happens to him. As Chaya and I read from a source in Tehillim (along with Meira and Eliana), it stated that, “...the wicked shall flourish like grass...,” showing that the wicked will flourish. Dovid Hamelech wrote Tehillim and he also wrote later on in Tehillim, “I am very much stunned and bowed; all day I go around in gloom...I passed out and was very crushed...my strength has left me, and the light of my eyes- they too are not with me.” It shows that Dovid Hamelech, the greatest king our nation has ever had, is struggling especially when he is not deserving of it. This clearly makes no sense and we may never understand because we aren’t capable. It’s like looking at a needlepoint stitching and from the back it looks ugly, that’s the side we see of the quilt, all the bad and ugliness in the world. When it says, “kedoshim tihiyu,” in this past week’s parsha, what does it mean? We aren’t capable of being as holy as Hashem. What it really means is that, we should see the world like Hashem sees it. Where everything has a positive side, no matter how bad it may seem. That’s the other side of the quilt. The side that only Hashem sees, where everything looks nice and everything makes sense. Once we are able to be holy like Hashem, we will truly understand the meaning behind why good things happen to bad people and vice versa.
ReplyDeleteRight now, not many things make sense to us at all, but one day, B”H, it all will.
In class we talked about the ideas and rationales behind tzdik via lo and rasha rah lo, why good things happen to bad people and why bad things happen to good people. As Eliana and I read we discovered that, just like Batya said, "the wicked shall flourish like grass." Since Eliana, Chaya, and Batya and I were all reading the same thing we decided to have a descussion about what we thought about this idea. i don't remember early what they said but I can think of an example right now that I wold like to share with you. Pharaoh, was the ruler of one of the most richest and most successful societies that the world has ever known. But he was also a horrible man who did wicked and horrible things to the jewish nation. He killed their children, kept them as salves and over worked them until they died of starvation. Why did he deserve such a great society if he was a horrible person? Which brings me to my next point. The Jews were slaves in Egypt and were tortured and beaten by the Egyptians. But they were also people to believed in Hashem no matter what and loved and feared him. So why did they deserve such harsh lives and why did pharaoh deserve such a good one? Hopefully one day we will fully understand the reason behind this and be able to know what Hashem has in store all of us.
ReplyDelete